New York-based RGA Investigations & Security "is doing private security on location at the Journal News as a result of the negative response," according to a police report obtained by the Rockland County Times of Nanuet, N.Y. The guards "are armed and will be on site during business hours through at least Jan. 2, 2013," the Times says.
Journal News Rockland Editor Caryn McBride was alarmed by the volume of “negative correspondence,” related to the paper's publishing a map of all pistol permit holders in Rockland and Westchester counties, according to the police report cited by the Times.
More permit data nixed
Also yesterday, Putnam County Clerk Dennis Sant said he would defy the paper's pending request under open-records laws for information about permit holders in his jurisdiction.
 |
| Sant |
Sant will join County Executive MaryEllen Odell and other elected officials at a Thursday news conference to discuss their decision.
The Reuters story did not say whether county officials had found an exemption to open-records laws that would allow them to withhold the information. Absent that, their decision could set up a legal battle between the county and the paper, the Journal News is reporting.
Hackers said hitting site
Published reports said a group of unidentified hackers had breached the Journal News' site -- lohud.com -- and stolen as many as 10,000 subscriber names and other identifying information.
A sample of the data may also appear on this Paste Bin page.
Earlier, other websites published the home addresses and phone numbers of some Journal News and Gannett employees, including Publisher Janet Hasson and GCI CEO Gracia Martore.
Also, a N.Y. group supporting gun owners called for a boycott of national and local advertisers in the Journal News and other Gannet titles. And a N.Y. state senator said he would pursue legislation that would exempt handgun permit holders' names, addresses and other personal information from open-records law.
This country has gone fucking nuts.
ReplyDeleteOnce again, why do we need assault rifles?
What is wrong with publishing public documents? These are public records! Available to anyone who asks! I hope that county clerk loses his job if he denies the papers request simply because he thinks its the right thing to do. He is a public employee. Those are public records. Unless he cites a legal reason, he is breaking the law by withholding public records! Why do so many people not understand how our public records laws work? Every time we print information received through a public record request, I'm amazed at some of the ignoramus comments from people. Learn the laws, people! Accept the fact you live in a country that has public record laws. They are good laws. They hold public documents open for your inspection. That is a good thing. Embrace it.
And tell me why we need assault rifles.
Keep Han guns and hunting rifles. Outlaw assault rifles. It's a start. Maybe 25 years from now, when the boys and girls who survived the newtown shooting have 6- year-old children of their own, an assault rifle won't be nearly as easily accessible as it was this time. Quit worrying about all your other guns being banned. They won't be. Lets work together to limit access to assault rifles. And quit comparing cars or knifes or planes to assault rifles. Cars and knifes and planes have other useful purposes. Assault rifles do not. They are for assaulting someone.
Please learn the laws and lets work in a solution.
The map & "story" have nothing, repeat that, nothing, to do with assault rifles.
DeleteFool. There is no such thing as an "assault" rifles. A rock can be an "assault weapon" if you assault someone with it.
DeleteWhat part of "shall not be abridged" do you not understand?
creeper
All permutations and descendants of the m-16 and ak-47 are classified as assault rifles, more specifically, those weapons that fire .223 ammunition. And i think the word is "infringed" rather than "abridged." No need to thank me. And before you go on a rant, I am a veteran and quite familiar with firearms. I also agree that these military-grade weapons should be banned. The constitution doesn't prevent the government from regulating what kind of firearms you can "bear". Better yet, tax the hell out of them and make it expensive.
DeleteWhat part of "well regulated" do you not understand 10:14?
DeleteRegarding 3:06's rant: "Keep Han guns and hunting rifles. Outlaw assault rifles. It's a start." It's the "It's a start" that's the most telling from the always over-reaching cultural left/media. They wasted no time in reaching into their wish list file cabinet to pull out one of their favorite assaults on liberty. And private gun ownership is always one of their favorite targets. Given their way, there would be no serious "national conversation" about gun control, just hysterical, knee-jerk legislation banning all guns. There is no compromise with the cultural left/media, only unconditional surrender. That's why organizations such as the NRA are quick to defend the outer edges of gun ownership. Isn't it also somewhat hypocritical to treat legal gun owners in such a way as the media (in this case the Journal News)has but remained largely quiet about the current administration's smuggling thousands of guns that it now wishes to ban to violent Mexican drug cartels?
DeleteIf it's OK for the Journal News to publish anything that's in public records, then JN staffers should have objections when their own names, addresses, phone numbers and other personal information appear all over the Internet.
DeleteIn fact, that's only the beginning. Public records can reveal a great deal more -- for instance, divorce records might contain accusations of infidelity and alcoholism, along with children's names and the schools they attend ... bankruptcy records might detail their personal financial woes ... other court records may cite traffic citations and DWI arrests, as well as lawsuits teeming with nasty personal allegations (unfounded or not).
So if the Journal News feels justified in publishing the names and addresses of law-abiding citizens, regardless of the personal risks and destruction that result, then disgruntled JN readers have every right to expose the personal lives of the reporters and editors who made it happen.
Says 5:46, who posts anonymously. Great stand, coward.
Delete@12:56 - So are you against a particular caliber? Or are you suggesting we ban all guns that look scary, like they might belong to a soldier? Any ideas how many murders are committed with .223s vs. handguns? What about shotguns? Sorry, your point just isn't very well reasoned.
Delete@2:08 - "well regulated" by whom? The Bill of Rights in this case is just as relevant for what it doesn't say as what it says: nowhere in the definition of "well regulated militia" does it specify a militia needs to stand on the side of the government. The Second Amendment is there to protect us from the government or anyone else who would harm us, including our elected/appointed officials.
FROM 5:46:
Delete@12:37 AM -- You're an Anonymous person criticizing another Anonymous person about being Anonymous. What's your point?
I never said that everyone's lives, including my own, should be an open book.
My point was that if the Journal News wants to justify publishing thousands of average citizens' names and addresses "Because it's public information," then JN staffers shouldn't object when their own public information appears online.
And as I noted, that could include everything from DWI arrests to divorce record information revealing their alcoholism treatment, their infidelity or the names and schools of their children.
But gee, you ask, wouldn't that subject a lot of innocent people to possible risk and embarrassment?
Well, sure it would -- just as the Journal News' gun owner list did to thousands of law-abiding citizens.
So why publish personal dirt on JN staffers? As the JN would say: "Because it's public information."
The other option is that we (including the Journal News) could rethink this flimsy rationale and agree that just because you CAN obtain and publish something doesn't mean you SHOULD.
You sound insane.
DeleteThe 223 REM is a sporting cartridge, as being you were military you would know that! The 223 is made also in bolt actions as well as single shots. The military version is the 5.56 NATO round, and the AK47 uses a 7.62x39
Delete@2:21
DeleteWell, I can always tell I've won the debate when my opponent starts attacking the messenger instead of the message.
Let me know if you ever come up with an actual argument that refutes anything I've said. Calling me "insane" or "coward" or "poopyhead" doesn't qualify.
Till then, have a nice day!
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
DeleteYou're nuts! The Bushmaster .223 made famous by Newtown was found in Adam Lanza's car/vehicle and was never used in the killing of children! Get your facts straight BEFORE your diatribe, idiot!
DeleteEarly media reports said the Bushmaster was found in Lanza's car.
DeleteBut later reports, based on findings by Connecticut state chief medical examiner Wayne Carver, showed Lanza carried the Bushmaster with him into the school.
According to The New York Times: "Carver said it appeared that all of the children had been killed by a 'long rifle' that Mr. Lanza was carrying; a .223 Bushmaster semiautomatic rifle was one of the several weapons police found in the school."
According to CNN five days after the shooting: "The primary weapon used in the attack was a 'Bushmaster AR-15 assault-type weapon,' said Connecticut State Police Lt. Paul Vance. The rifle is a Bushmaster version of a widely made AR-15, the civilian version of the M-16 rifle used by the U.S. military.
So, what's never being stated is how much danger have those people faced thus far. Have there been a chain of break ins already targeting those handgun owners? Have they already been singled out for acts of violence? Or, has nothing happened and a smaller group is preying on the public fear that someone may rob their house to get a gun (which shouldn't be a problem since many are advocating we need more guns in the hands of the public)?
DeleteThe new accusations that are being referenced are a few YouTube videos that the conspiracy theorists allege show the Saiga shotgun Lanza had in the trunk being removed during the day, but a second video shot after dark that shows the .223 was in the trunk of the car as well. A "liberal conspiracy designed to trigger gun law passage".
Basically, where as Oswald was the center of a theory because there's no way he got off that many shots in that short of time with those angles; it's acceptable to think Lanza got off 100+ rounds with two handguns because it attacks the opposition.
I wonder how much the armed guards are costing? Layoff reporters to pay for them? Maybe they should do serious reporting about guns instead of data dumps that please no one except a delusional publisher.
ReplyDeleteSort of interesting that there was never a whimper when NY statewide concealed carry permits were published.
ReplyDeletehttp://cryptome.org/ny-packing-master.zip
Most damning part of that Rockland Times story:
ReplyDelete"McBride had filed at least two reports with the Clarkstown Police Department due to perceived threats. However, the police did not find the communications in question actually threatening."
Our brave journalists at work!
Speaking of brave journalists - former Journal News freelancer Dylan Skriloff sure is having fun with this story from his vantage point as editor-in-chief of the Rockland County Times.
Delete@9:45 AM
DeleteYeah, I guess Journal News editor Caryn McBride isn't so fond of public information when it's her own and her fellow staffers'.
Imagine, having to step out of your ivory tower occasionally and deal with the same uncertainties as the unwashed masses you write about so recklessly. It must be a strange, new sensation for McBride and friends.
They hold public documents open for your inspection. That is a good thing
DeletePresswire
So they're having guards for business hours, but the journalists who have to work at night are out of luck? Brilliant!
ReplyDeleteObviously, it's not about the safety of the reporters -- it's about the safety of management!
DeleteNo there are guards at night as well.
DeleteThe "rule of law" doesn't matter? Sue the county and oust that Putnam guy.
ReplyDeleteGive it up. This paper's insane act will impel your state government to seal those records PDQ. Let them sue Sant. By the time the appeal is heard it'll be a moot point. You spineless, cowering liberals have over-reached with this one and you are not going to like the result.
Deletecreeper
Funny. This is what the gun-nuts get because of shooting after shooting after shooting after shooting. I know you don't care about people dying, as long as you have your guns. See how that works? Boo hoo to you.
DeleteHow do you know that individuals you've never met don't care about other people dying? Must you libs just make this crap up as you go?
DeleteWe all know the routine, "Caring, sharing, warm and fuzzy libs are always right and everybody else sucks." blah, blah, blah.
2:10, Do you ever use a motor vehicle? Motor vehicle nuts have killed millions. Guess we need to take those away and let you walk to work. (You DO have a job, right? No? Well Obummer will take care of you by taking away money from those of us who work.)
DeleteThe car argument is always a fast sign of a stupid person.
DeleteLots of car regulations. I guess we should just get rid of all of them. After all, people are dying in accidents. Let's wipe out those center lines! The biggest vehicle gets to decide which side of the road it uses!
Maybe the Wisconsin papers should run maps of gun permit holders. Since the editors are all click whores, and no one is commenting on web stories anymore, that would be a way to bump up web traffic.
ReplyDeleteNow don't go giving them any ideas.
DeleteIn Wisconsin, as in most states, the conceal carry license database is exempted from the open records law.
DeleteThey could run maps of all the people who have dog and cat licenses. If they needed armed guards it would only be part-time. Our editors don't work after dark, and it's dark by 4:30 now.
Delete@10:04 a.m., you know as well as I that the night crews at the sites don't matter to any of the daytime honchos.
ReplyDeleteWere any of the armed guards’ names, residences published? If so, bet they’re real happy to help Gannett now. Not.
ReplyDeleteInternally, I wonder how many LOCAL advertisers have pulled out or cut back since all this hit the fan. Car dealers and realtors are notoriously skiddish, whiny and fast to pull when there is something in editorial side they don't like.
ReplyDeleteI can imagine how the ad staff there is looking at all this right now! They must be livid at the newsroom for putting revenue at risk.
Ad reps and directors traditionally loathe the newsroom for content that isn't to their liking. They want just "happy news" - as in PR fluff and freebie stuff about their clients - that doesn't offend their folks.
I can imagine what is going on in that building today. Yow!
Nothing is going on .
DeleteThe underpaid sales staff don' want to
jeopardize there crummy jobs there .
I don't understand - why don't they just put a "gun-free zone" sign on their building like we have at my site - that should solve everything.
ReplyDeleteD'Oh!! Why didn't I think of that?
DeleteThis was monumentally foolish and anyone who knows anything about crime knows that if you publish such data, it will be made secret at the first legislative opportunity. Well done. Prepare to never be able to get that information again in the state of New York.
ReplyDeleteIn addition, what is the news value of publishing such a map? The nut graf on the original article exposes how weak this whole idea was: "some Lower Hudson Valley residents would like lawmakers to expand the amount of information the public can find out about gun owners..."
"Some." Huh. My first guess is that "some" means, "my editor." Especially since the article appears to quote only ONE PERSON calling for that. There appears to be no actual movement, no serious proposals to do what the nut graf states.
Can someone explain the news value of this whole conceit?
I don't blame the reporter, I'm guessing it was a hackneyed assignment by a clueless editor.
Completely agree here. This was pointless on the part of the Journal News, and if anyone over there in a position of power had a brain in their head, they would have realized absolutely nothing worthwhile would come of the exercise.
DeleteIf that sign is made at the GIADC - you'll be telling everyone it's a free-gun zone.
ReplyDeleteSo let me get this straight...an organization that is anti-gun utilizes gun-bearing security to protect itself from imagined threats?
ReplyDeleteThey never actually claimed to be anti-gun. They just published the record. Smart or not is a different story, but the original article states no opinion on guns.
DeleteYou also have a poor notion of imagined threats, since there's been a significant number of threats levied against various companies within Gannett.
DeleteThis is amusing. I'm sure that by now Gannett knows nothing will happen to any of their personnel, but the hacking and posting of personal information has got to be slightly alarming.
ReplyDeleteI bet the advertisers stay away in the next quarter. In these uncertain economic times, all it really takes is a little bit of monetary pressure to get companies to fold to your demands, especially relics of a bygone era like Gannett.
The Journal News staff is back at work this evening after officials deemed an envelope, containing a suspicious white powder and found with the mail, was not a threat, officials said.
ReplyDeleteJim,
ReplyDeleteCan you explain how the open records act contravenes the Privacy Act of 1974? You would think that at least the addresses would be withheld under the privacy act. I guess this falls into the same situation as publishing names and addresses of bankruptcies.
I'm not familiar enough with the Privacy Act to answer your question.
DeleteHowever, the government agency that released the public records showing handgun permit holders may have failed to redact information that's exempt from the open-records law.
I once asked the U.S. Labor Department for Gannett's annual defined benefit plan report and was surprised to find it included Social Security numbers for scores of current and former employees.
This turned out to be an oversight by the Labor Department. I agreed to return the documents because I had no use for the SSNs.
But according to the Journal News' rationale, the Social Security numbers were public information, so you should have had no qualms about using Gannett's Social Security Numbers in print, even if it served no specific purpose.
DeleteAgain, asking Jim to "analyze" anything is a joke.
DeleteI always laugh hard at people who do this. Why do you keep doing it?
Don't get me wrong -- I would miss the entertainment if you stopped. But I just have to wonder who continues to think he is going to give you a worthwhile answer.
The Privacy Act is a federal law germane only to federal agencies.
Delete3:06 here: by "it's a start, " I mean banning assault rifles would be a start in getting those type of guns off the street. I am not against hand guns or hunting rifles. What I oppose are the military grade assault rifles that have no other purpose and should not be available to the public. Banning them now would mean that 10, 15, 20 years from now they won't be as accessible to someone who wants to harm people. It would be a start toward that goal, not a complete ban of all guns.
ReplyDelete12:27 - No purpose other than what? Killing people?
DeleteRead the Second Amendment. The right to keep and bear arms is to fight for freedom and against tyranny. You know, tyrants like those who would violate our constitutionally guaranteed rights.
You don't think the Revolutionary War was fought with registered weapons, do you? People died, and the tyrants lost.
The Second Amendment ain't about hunting. It's to keep government officials from forcing their values on their fellow citizens.
That's so Revolutionary.
DeleteThe need to bear arms against a tyrannical government is a thing of the 1700s. But 'Muricans will use it as a convenient excuse to keep a semi-automatic assault rifle under their beds.
God bless!
8:39 - Tyrannical governments didn't go away 200 years ago. Think Syria, China, Iran and increasingly, the US (how many children have Obama's targeted drone assassinations killed?)
DeleteThe country was founded on the idea that taxation without representation was immoral and needed to be effectively resisted.
Tell us, are the people in Washington doing what you want them to do? The polls I see say 80 percent or more of us disapprove.
I work on the ad dept and I can tell you all that some advertisers have already started to pull, including some that were on the list. Not sure if we'll ever get those back. Knowing this management team I bet you we won't get any consideration and our goals will remain the same.GOD, I HATE THIS PLACE!!!!!!!!!!
ReplyDeleteA former Chicago policeman, now blogging from Arizona, wrote last weekend that the Journal News endangered innocent people by publishing that data.
ReplyDeleteThe apposite is just as true: A big media corporation publishes data from a government database as part of a government crusade to demonize gun owners and make them all criminals. It is no different from the anti-Muslim practices of the NYPD or the anti-Jewish pogroms of the Third Reich.
Gannett may like to wrap itself in the First Amendment, but its journalistic and corporate practices are anything but.
Topics like this reveal how many nut cases really are out there roaming America. I'm surpised there aren't 10 or 15 Newtowns every year in this nation.
ReplyDeletePublic agencies have the right to release information and redact certain personal details and it happens all the time. Police reports released to the public traditionally black out info such as social security and phone numbers.
ReplyDeleteSo the fault isn't with the Journal News for asking, but with county officials for not culling that personal information from the public records they turned over to the paper. They also could have withheld the names of law enforcement personal as well, eliminating that argument. A lazy public official not doing their job properly? Who would believe such a thing.
Yeah, but the Journal News isn't blameless or undeserving of the reaction it's getting.
DeleteEvery reporter who deals with public records for any length of time invariably stumbles across information that could hurt, threaten or embarrass people if it were published.
Not all of it is newsworthy (Social Security numbers and court information about minor kids, for example), and just because you can obtain such data legally doesn't make you a responsible journalist for publishing it.
Every owner that is on that map should sue the hell out of Gannett company. It's amazing that the idiots even posted such an article. That agency should be boycotted and shut down.
ReplyDeleteThis is a national story. I'm wondering if any Gannett newspapers have dared to cover what's happening on the issue. My guess is corporate is terrified.
ReplyDeleteI found this story on the Rockland County Times website.
ReplyDeleteFAIL of the Day—-Twenty-five Percent of the Journal News’ Rockland County Gun-Map not Accurate
http://www.rocklandtimes.com/2013/01/04/fail-of-the-day-twenty-five-percent-of-the-journal-news-rockland-county-gun-map-not-accurate/
New York magazine picked up on what the Gannett daily is facing:
ReplyDeleteAlmost Everyone at Journal News Getting Threats
Journal News Reporters Told They'll Be Shot Walking to Their Cars
All for the sake of getting extra clicks and carrying out a sinister government agenda.
The information would have been useful as a analysis of the population in general. Like what percent of people in what neighborhoods own guns.
ReplyDeleteI wonder if it ever crossed the mind of the reporter or editor that one of those names might be a women hiding from an abusive former spouse or boyfriend.
Let's hope the Journal News drowns in a sea of litigation and goes out of business. I would join the lawsuit, but I'm busy running background checks on retired Navy SEALS to protect my Westchester estate...
ReplyDeleteHey, nice site you have here! Keep up the excellent work!
ReplyDeleteSecurity Guards Services