Monday, December 22, 2008
Monday | Dec. 22 | Your News & Comments
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Jim says: "Proceed with caution; this is a free-for-all comment zone. I try to correct or clarify incorrect information. But I can't catch everything. Please keep your posts focused on Gannett and media-related subjects. Note that I occasionally review comments in advance, to reject inappropriate ones. And I ignore hostile posters, and recommend you do, too."
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Hi, there! What's up?
ReplyDeletewhy is it by law Gannett has the right to hold our 401K money until 30 days?
ReplyDeleteGannett screw us again- In Jersey if you get severance pay you cannot collect unemployment benfits until after it ends.
ReplyDeleteIf Gannett gave us payment in a lump sum we would collect right away. because we are consider still on the books , recd' severance each pay week thats what is stopping us from collecting.
Your traffic
ReplyDeleteTime for Gannett stock to take another beating. The future of Gannett was yesterday.
ReplyDelete7:32 am - I was laid off Dec 2, I am in NJ and I already received my first unemployment check. Dont know who gave you that info. Apply online and do it NOW! Be patient tho the system in NJ SUCKS!!!
ReplyDeleteHappy Holidays!
Not sure how unemployment delayed til after severance is screwing anyone.
ReplyDeleteIf you get paid your normal daily rate, and your benefits are continued, and your paychecks arrive the same date as if you were still working... by accepting UNEMPLOYMENT benefits you are screwing the state.
Sure, you COULD be given a lump sum, but then Gannett would have to pay your unemployment immediately - this way the company saves a pile of cash if anybody finds a job before they have to go on the dole.
Sorry, no sympathy. You shouldn't be able to double dip.
Oh my gawd, enough of the severance shit 9:13. You must be a human resource manager. Severence is not a continuation of your salary. It is a payment for them terminating you. They choose to give it to you in the same manner as before - that doesn't mean you are not allowed to collect unemployment while getting your severence checks every two weeks. I can't believe you think that collecting unemployment immediately is screwing the state. If so, they are allowing it to happen knowingly. Double dipping? please.
ReplyDeleteNJ (and most states') unemployment law allows this "double dip," not just for us but for everyone. Severence pay isn't relevant to the fact your employment was terminated.
ReplyDeleteFor example, if Gannett gave us $1 severance for the next 26 paychecks, could it avert unemployment claims against it for the next year? Yes, if the world bought that "double dip" mentality.
What was wrong -- perhaps fraudulent, given financial motive -- was for Kathi Abatemarco to misinform us when she said we couldn't collect unemployment until after severance checks stopped coming.
In a previous post, I transcribed relevant portions of the booklet of rights unemployment sent me after I filed. It defines the difference between "severance pay" and "continuance pay" with great specificity.
We are clearly collecting "severence pay" in periodic payments, not "continuance pay" as employees of the company. Continuance pay is for people on unpaid suspension or unpaid leave of choice who are intended to return to work at the end of the period.
Gannett's letter says we are terminated. It couldn't disburse our pension or 401k if we were still employees, so this definition is a no-brainer.
I sincerely doubt the misinformation from NJ Gannett HRs was accidental.
Hey Anonymous
ReplyDelete12/22/2008 9:13 AM
Do you know how much unemployment benefits are? My dad just got laid off, and he's working his butt of to find a job. He's eligible for all of $1,616 a month. He'd like to take the "huge" 12-week severance money and try and use it to his advantage. Don't you think a lump sum is the least a newspaper could do after he worked 20 years for the company?
Maybe you should get a little sympathy.
Here's a NYTimes story about a Asbury Park weekly that refuses to participate in the rush to the Internet.
ReplyDeleteIt's doing well enough to support the publisher and its 2.5 other employees.
Enjoy!
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/22/business/media/22carr.html?8dpc
Sympathy? You're bankrupting a system that is feeding people who don't have that Gannett bankroll to lie back on.
ReplyDeleteNo matter what you call it, you're getting your full pay and you want additional pay meant for your neighbors who are not getting any income at all.
Sympathy? You have my pity for your attitude. But not sympathy.
1053 AM, unemployment insurance isn't an entitlement "system." We're collecting on OUR money we put in over the years and GANNETT's money for terminating us.
ReplyDeleteWe're taking NOTHING from anyone. How dare you imply we're freeloaders. Either you're very misguided or one of the lying HR reps still trying to pull the wool over our eyes to prevent getting charged for choosing to lay off almost 15 percent at some NJ papers.
It was Gannett's privilege to employ us. There's a financial disincentive for it to terminate us. Get over it. The days of robbing labor is coming to an end.
Oh, and let me remind Mr./Ms. HR Apologist: Gannett Co. isn't in the red. It's a profitable company that has continued to pay its investors top dividends and its brass absurd multimillion-dollar compensations and luxuries.
ReplyDeleteIt wasn't necessary or even good business strategy to terminate any newsroom positions. This was all about busting the clout of labor, no more, no less.
So, you might find a more captivated audience for your sad little violin over at Craig's blog, if he has one.
7:32 In my opinion you shouldnt get unemployement untill you are off the severance pay. When you are getting severance you are getting 100 percent of what you were making while working why get extra money until you need it? Why should you get a bonus when you get laid off. If you cant get a job after your severance runs out then I agree you should get the unemployment but not until. The tax funded unemployement should be used only as a safty net not free money.
ReplyDeleteCripes, and then you wonder why people don't like New Jersey. Sanctimonious whiny freeloaders.
ReplyDeleteThe above comments have merit. If you want to get what Gannett paid in, then just wait until your severance runs out, don't look for a job.
Unemployment isn't a prize you get because your boss thought you weren't useful enough. It's supposed to help tide you over until the next job comes in.
People getting sev and unemployement is double dipping and its not what unemployement is meant for. Gannett doesnt owe you crap for laying you off. They give you the sev to me nice. There is no law that says that they have to give you anything. Now you have me taking up for Gannett. You all suck.
ReplyDeleteUnemployment agencies are primarily funded by payroll deductions, not your taxes.
ReplyDeleteAnyway, Dan Jacobson is somewhat disingenuous in that unfortunate single-source NYT article (or ad?) about the TriCity News in Asbury Park. He may not publish his articles online, but his TriCity staffer Tommy DeSeno sure as hell created a blog in the Asbury Park Press and participates in the APP online social networks to communicate the TriCity product -- a product that leaves a lot to be desired in factual accuracy and objectivity.
I believe it's succeeding, however, just as the APP succeeded amply better than that, even, under well managed family ownership. A company that doesn't have insatiable investors demanding 29% profits for doing nothing and fat multimillion-dollar golf-playing top brass to support certainly is profitable for the people who actually do the work of making a newspaper.
The lesson learned isn't what Jacobson claims, though. The lesson learned is that corporate ownership of media is a miserable failure of both business and journalism.
I hate to say this but many of you in NJ just plain suck. You bitched before the layoffs about how crappy it is to work for Gannett. Now that you are laid off you want to get a raise (sev and unemployment at the same time). You remind me of that ant and grasshopper cartoon. Where the grasshopper sings, "oh the world owes me a living". For christs sake! I am glad I dont work in the same company as you anymore. I think that if Gannett gave you a million bucks, sev for life, and a new BMW you would bitch because the BMW was the wrong color. Be happy with what you got and move one. Your constant whining is turning my stomach. Gannett sucks, dont get me wrong. Managemnt sucks the most. But, you guys will bitch about anything. Wasnt there anything good about the years you worked at gannett? if not, why didnt you quit years ago? And if you quit, would you have to give Gannett a severance check? Would you give them a lump some check?
ReplyDeleteHARD TRUTH: most states are an at will state and you or the company can terminate employement for any reason. Correct me if I am wrong, but severance is not a state or fed law. They gave that on their own. You mean the 666 satin Gannett gave severance when they didnt have too? Must be some sort of plot to break unions and destroy newspapers as we know them. Because we all know that Gannett can't do anything good for employees. Right?
Whats worse then working for Gannett? Working for Gannett in New Jersey!
ReplyDeleteIn normal times, unemployment lasts 26 weeks, and now it's more, at least in most areas.
ReplyDeleteGiven the state of the economy, it is quite likely you might not find a job during the time you receive your severance pay, unless you have a long history with Gannett. If this is the case, you'll still get 26 weeks+ of unemployment benefits when your severance runs out.
Those of you who have been told they can receive unemployment while collecting severance pay might want to closely READ about the regs in your state, rather than rely on the word of a fallible human being. If it is discovered that you are inappropriately receiving unemployment $$$, you will have to pay it back and will lose future amounts from this layoff.
Get it in writing, at least.
New subject: Has anyone heard anything about first quarter of 2009? Any cost-cutting/downsizing moves coming? I am nervous about the future.
ReplyDeleteI think Gannett should sell the corporate HQ and move into the Star-Gazette building in Elmira. God knows there is plenty of unused space there.
ReplyDeleteDon't know what's up with the NJ unemployment system. In Ohio, you are technically eligible for unemployment when laid off/bought out. BUT: your GCI payments are deducted from your weekly unemployment eligibility. In virtually all cases that means you are in fact eligible for $0 as long as the severance flows.
ReplyDeleteThe moral of the story is: Do your homework. Every state has different rules, and it takes work to figure them out. Go to your state sites to find out what's up. HR is a poor resource on this topic.
Hark the herald headlines sing - a CN story about Andrea Thorne touts her "Courier-Tribune" achievement. Will that be the new name for CN/HNT?
ReplyDelete1201 PM, do you have any facts to back up the veiled threat?
ReplyDeleteIn NJ, we file online. If we answer all the questions accurately and are approved to receive the unemployment insurance benefits we've paid into for years in our payroll deductions, what do we have to fear? The worst-case scenario is the agency says it made a mistake and asks for the money back.
But I doubt that would happen, given this in its booklet, "Unemployment Insurance: Your Rights and Responsibilities":
SEPARATION PAY
There are several types of payments that may be issued to you by your former employer at the time of your permanent separation from employment. The receipt of such payment may affect your monetary entitlement and/or eligibility for benefits.
Severance Pay: If your former employer gives you a lump sum or periodic payment at the time of separation which is based on past services, such payment is considered to be severance pay. Severance pay does not lengthen the period of employment and is not a bar to the payment of unemployment insurance benefits. However, severance pay may not be used to establish or increase monetary entitlement for any future unemployment claim.
Continuation Pay: If by contractual or other agreement, your employer continues to pay your wages and foregoes the services normally performed by you through your date of termination, is is considered to be "Continuation Pay." These payments may be either paid in the customary pay period cycles, or in a lump sum. You are considered to be "employed" during this and are not entitled to unemployment benefits. Your claim for benefits is considered invalid because you are not considered "unemployed." A new claim may be filed after the effective date of separation from the employment.
This isn't even a close call, is it? People terminated involuntarily in the December layoffs are receiving severance, not continuance, and are eligible, according to NJ Unemployment.
Why would anyone want to be stingy to people who were living paycheck to paycheck already, most with little to no savings because of Gannett pay that's relatively low for NJ's cost of living? Finding new work often requires some investment, including wardrobe and travel costs, they didn't have before layoff.
Would you rather see your former colleagues homes in foreclosure when they can't make the January payment that NJ unemployment alone couldn't possibly cover, even if people didn't need to eat and stay warm, too?
I applied for NJ unemployment online. Answering all questions truthfully! Submitting the fact that I am receiving severance and when it runs out. If I am not entitled to unemployment then the state of NJ should have rejected my application for benefits now! If I was told I have to wait then fine I would have waited. What other choice do I have? Yes I am looking for work hard every day - Its not easy, but hey.. Im not complaining. The only thing I am worried about is when my 401k / Pension info will arrive. God Bless Us All! Even you NJ Haters!
ReplyDeleteEvidently deciding what is legal and what is right isn't just an issue for the Crystal Palace.
ReplyDeleteNJ is a problem in many ways. To add to what has already been said, they get very confusing when you tell them you accepted a "voluntary buyout." You are rejected because they tell you that you are on "salary continuation." The next challenge is what happens if you rolled over a lump sum retirement (IRA) into another IRA. They want to know how much you contributed to the retirement, and the answer is "nothing" which seems to disqualify you from unemployment.
ReplyDeleteSOMEONE PLEASE TELL ME HOW WRONG I AM ABOUT THIS! PLEASE!
I was wondering if "Boomsy Boom" is available for house calls!
ReplyDeleteRe: 1:25 PM.
ReplyDeleteI joined the PTA at my kid's school. Can I get a picture of the induction ceremony into the Courier-Tribune???
Didn't think so.
This reminds me of all the Ketanographs that were in the paper under the former publisher.
Microsoft is rumored to laying off 10% of workforce early in 2009. Mini-Microsoft is the Microsoft equivalent to gannettblog - although run by a participating currently employed person.
ReplyDeletehttp://minimsft.blogspot.com/2008/12/rumors-of-upcoming-microsoft-cut-backs.html
12:01 -- everybody should check out severance and unemployment laws in your own state. They apparently vary quite a bit. In Missouri, I was told that I couldn't get unemployment while on severance. Check your own state laws and collect whatever they'll allow.
ReplyDeleteBest of luck to everybody.
Forget about layoffs. I'm hearing forced unpaid vacations are top topics of discussion as the the next step on this down escalator. You get to keep your job, but get less money for it.
ReplyDelete1:25 PM:
ReplyDeleteWHERE is the CN story about Andrea Thorne touting her "Courier-Tribune" achievement? I can't wait to read is!
Jim:
ReplyDeleteIt's time to open a new thread on publishers who routinely use newspaper maintenance employees to do work that has nothing to do with the production of the newspaper.
I don't know about today, but in the past, this was very common. Brevard (for Al), Ft. Myers and Pensacola come to mind as locations where employees might have some great stories to tell.
I am sure that some publishers who are reading this will not be too thrilled with the details coming out of home-based activities. Is it newsworthy?
Geez, you guys give Gannett a lot more power than it has. Gannett does not decide how each state administers its unemployment. In some states, SC for one - you can collect unemployment while you are being paid severance. In others - Ohio for example - you cannot. This is a state decision, not something Gannett can influence. God knows, this company is to blame for many, many wrongs. But this isn't one of them.
ReplyDeleteA one week unpaid furlough means an annualized decrease in total pay of 1.9%.
ReplyDeleteIf that is what Seattle is doing, I can see where that would be a lot more feasible for us to do - and is less of an impact than actually decreasing wages forever for staff.
2:45pm - I lost my job at a Gannett NJ paper last July and have been collecting NJ unemployment ever since. I received my money from the Gannett Retirement Plan in a lump sum. If you are under 59 1/2 they will figure out what amount you would receive if you were getting monthly pension payments. It works out to be a really small amount - depending of course on your age and how much you money you accrued in the retirement plan. But you still will receive unemployment benefits.
ReplyDelete3:54pm, here ya go...
ReplyDeletehttp://www.mycentraljersey.com/article/20081220/BUSINESS/81219029/-1/newsfront
1:31
ReplyDeleteVeiled threat? what the heck are you talking about? Are you nuts or just paranoid?
There IS life outside of New Jersey, strange as it may seem.
Case in point, from one of the lesser states, for which you will be declared ineligible to receive unemployment benefits.
**********************
Issue: Severance Pay
Cause: You are receiving, have received or will receive severance pay, dismissal pay or wages in lieu of notice or wage continuation.
******************************
And yes, you do have to pay it back, and yes, it can cause you to not get future benefits if you fudge your answer.
That being the case, wouldn't it make sense to make absolutely sure you're on the right track? can you imagine having to pay back $$$ you thought you had but didn't? after you spent it?
Thorne story is here:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.mycentraljersey.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=200881219029
In reference to payroll taxes paying for unemployment benefits, is that just a NJ thing? In other states, the employer pays it like an insurance premium, and the rate goes up if it is drawn upon.
ReplyDelete2:45 pm - Regarding the Gannett Retirement Plan money: I forgot to say that if you receive a lump sum payment and you are under 59 1/2 years old, NJ Unemployment will deduct your weekly pension amount from your unemployment check and you will not be disqualified from collecting. And the amount deducted is very small. If you roll the money into an IRA or other retirement account then it doesn't affect your unemployment benefits at all.
ReplyDeleteAnother unemployment quirk, you can start a business (free-lancing etc.) collect fees and still collect unemployment in Iowa. Self-employment income does not count as "wages". Check in your respective state to see what the rules are.
ReplyDeleteThat depends 2:46,
ReplyDeleteDo you have a flat space overlooking the Atlantic and a jet that can pick me up to get me there?
459 PM, sorry if I was edgy in reply to you. Did you read all the ugly rants about how we in NJ are unethical and destroying our neighbors by collecting our relatively meager unemployment insurance benefits along with our limited severance?
ReplyDeleteYou don't seem to say what state you are in, so what's the value of your unattributed info and paranoia about having to repay benefits? I gave you the exact quotes and source showing we in NJ do seem to be eligible to collect unemployment immediately, not after severance runs out. Not collecting it isn't a matter of being ethical; it would be a matter of being foolish if we didn't.
For 2:45 PM, a buyout in NJ, you maybe shouldn't have filed your package terms as "salary continuance." By NJ definitions, the payments may be severance, not continuance pay. Did you have some kind of contract or agreement you signed not to collect unemployment until after severance expires? I know the layoffs did not, and the separation papers are clear layoff folks are no longer employees.
But a voluntary termination may be a horse of a different color anyway.
P.S. That flat space needs to be your roof.
ReplyDeleteDamn I am tirred of new jersey. The state, not Gannett,controls unemployment compensation.It is their rules, not the company rules. The company apparently chose to pay salary continuation so employees could continue benefits at employee rates rather than go onto cobra. Period. Simple. Company in a bad time treats those leaving and it gets complaints. Sorry Jersey, enough already
ReplyDeleteAll the rhetoric has just moved me to a state of confusion.
ReplyDeleteIs it better to wait until the severance runs out and then file for unemployment?
or
collect severance and unemployment at the same time?
The former gives you less money each week for a longer period of time and the latter provides more money for a shorter period of time.
Any help?
6:56 - I *definitely* don't think it's unethical to double-dip if it's ok in your state. I'm in Delaware, for the record.
ReplyDeleteIt just troubled me that someone might not be in a state that allows it, decide to not report on the basis that it's ok, and then get stuck with the bill and the prospect of seeing their unemployment go bye-bye.
I'm also curious about the states where you have to report the severance pay as income, and then have that amount deducted from the unemployment insurance pay. Does that count as part of the 26 weeks - are you screwing yourself out of the full unemployment insurance amount if you do it that way?
7:32, i don't know how long you'd worked for gannett. i had enough years for the maximum 26 weeks. if you'd been given a lump sum, you'd have been taxed on it as if that were your ordinary pay.
ReplyDeletefor instance, just to make the math easy, say you grossed 52k/yr. after receiving 48 wks' pay (24 checks) this year, you'd have made $48k. then, suppose you got your 26 wks' severance all in a lump.
congratulations! you just got a "raise" to $74k this year, meaning you'll lose a bunch to the irs. and worse yet, your $26k gross in severance will be treated as if you earned $26k/pay period -- in other words, a huge chunk will be withheld to pay taxes on the $676k you'd be assumed to be making per year.
instead, you'll get your money doled out more slowly, won't have to pay cobra rates until it runs out, will get a little more in your check if you've been paying for parking, etc.
how gannett did such a humane thing, i can't imagine. surely it was a violation of company policy to fail to screw us all over just one more time for auld lang syne.
one thing I didn't see come up with the theme of "double dipping"
ReplyDeleteRemember you still have to pay income tax on all that money you collected.
Are you sure you don't want to wait to collect unemployment?
this blog is bad mouthing Jersey, this is getting way out of hand
ReplyDeletemost of us just got lay off from a Gannett newspapers, we sign on to get answers and help. Not to be bad mouth.
if we are recd' severance pay and collecting unemployment benefits at no fault to us, when they catch up with us - we will pay it back no big deal.
8:45, if that answer was for me, 7:31, it was no help.
ReplyDeleteCan anyone else?
Can't seem to find Andrea Thorne
ReplyDeletei think they wipe it off the website
845 PM, I agree the Gannett severance policy so far has been shockingly reasonable. The only thing I fault Gannett for is its NJ Group misinforming employees of their state unemployment compensation rights.
ReplyDeleteAfter reading all this, it seems like Gannett had a nationwide offer of the one week/year worked, without regard to which states allowed laid off workers to collect unemployment now or later.
With the cost of living so high in NJ, though, so-called "double" collecting is not unreasonable. It's nice we still get insurance coverage, but we don't get any of the other benefits, including pension/401k match, unemployment contributions, (will Social Security payments and co-payments be collected?), Jennings scholarship eligibility for our kids (LOL), the company Christmas ziti meal, etc. -- or the intangibles such as the comraderie and job search advantage. No one should consider it "continuance pay" if it's not the whole package, same as other employees.
As for your question, 731 PM, I don't plan to spend my unemployment checks, assuming they start coming soon. I'm planning to put it in the bank and use it only if needed for job search expenses. My usual paycheck gives me a no-frills budget.
That way, if I need the draw the 26 weeks of unemployment compensation after severance runs out, I'll have those "double checks" (far from double $$, though) in escrow, of sorts, and I won't have to worry about the bureaucracy.
7:32, are you sure about that? I read the information on NJ's labor site and it seemed to say just the opposite.
ReplyDeleteI'm in NJ too and my spouse works for one of the papers. I read up on all of the unemployment stuff because if we were going to lose that salary -- and for us the severance would have been 10 weeks -- we needed to do some serious financial planning.
ReplyDeleteEvery person in NJ who works pays taxes out of their paycheck for unemployment insurance. So we are paying into a fund designed to cover us if we get laid off. Employers contribute an amount equal to the amount we contribute (I know because I had to pay the taxes for a babysitter when our kids were small, in order to write off the child care on the federal returns).
We ran the numbers, and had my spouse been laid off, filing for unemployment would have been immediate and a necessary step to weather the financial storm we would face when that 10 weeks was up and we had to start paying COBRA costs. My job doesn't offer benefits. $900 a month is a heavy load to take on. And unemployment in NJ doesn't pay your full salary. We would have been cutting back significantly, but there are still things like braces and car insurance and heating bills that have to be paid. Dipping into the pension and 401(k) money isn't a viable option because you have to pay what amounts to 30 percent of it in taxes if you do.
We paid into unemployment and even if my spouse had been laid off, I would still be paying into it. Seeing as how it's money we have contributed and are contributing, I hardly see it as double-dipping.
Stop hating NJ so much and start realizing that we're all just trying to figure out how to survive this mess -- a mess not of our own creating.
Regarding: why is it by law Gannett has the right to hold our 401K money until 30 days?
ReplyDeleteOkay, they should snap fingers and guess what is in your account.
Just kidding. But really, since it is all outsources, they longerit takes cash to get to the more fees Gannett has to pay the outsourcer. If anything, Gannett would want to get you the money sooner if they had a choice.
Or maybe change the plan to cut it entirely.