I'm especially struck by the fact the board of directors is now publicly expressing confidence in Dubow (left), indicating that his job remains secure. Meanwhile, early employee reaction is mixed: "Night has become day, the sun rose in the west, and the seas receded,'' one reader says. "But we should not shed many tears for Craig Dubow, who still is hauling in an embarrassing sum. I have to admit it does show management is willing to share some of the pain the rank and file is feeling."Questions: Did the board take a formal confidence vote? If so, who made that motion? Why is Dubow the only officer taking a pay cut? Plus, what happens with bonuses?
Dubow cites 'deep sacrifices'
The memo follows:
Gannett Chairman, President and Chief Executive Officer Craig Dubow today announced that he will take a voluntary $200,000 (17%) salary reduction beginning November 1 and continuing through 2009. Also, all company and divisional officers will have their salaries frozen for 2009.
"All Gannett employees are making deep sacrifices for their company," said Dubow. "I have great empathy for those employees and their families who have lost their jobs. I also recognize that our employees are working harder and harder to produce results in a challenging business environment. But I firmly believe the steps we are taking now are necessary and will serve as the foundation for our future success. I want to thank all our employees for their patience and loyalty during these difficult times."
Gannett Presiding Director Karen Hastie Williams (left) said: "We commend Craig for his leadership in taking this step. The Board is well aware that the company and the media industry generally are experiencing difficult times. The Board believes that the company's strategic plan has set the right course given the secular and cyclical challenges the company faces. The Board continues to support Craig and his management team and their efforts to lead Gannett into the future."Dubow's big payday: $7.5 million
His total compensation is about $7.5 million, counting base pay, bonus, stock awards, stock options and deferred compensation interest earnings, company spokeswoman Tara Connell told Reuters news service. Dubow volunteered the pay cut to the board, which accepted it, Connell said.
I've e-mailed and telephoned Connell for comment.
Please post your replies in the comments section, below. To e-mail confidentially, write gannettblog[at]gmail[dot-com]; see Tipsters Anonymous Policy in the green sidebar, upper right.
Gosh, thanks for all that empathy for my layoff, which was conducted with the grossest insensitivity. I'll let my worried and upset family members know that Craig Dubow did feel our pain.
ReplyDeleteFINALLY! Maybe I'm naive, but I feel a little better about this company now.
ReplyDeleteBut what about their bonuses? Say not?
ReplyDeleteO
ReplyDeleteM
ReplyDeleteG
ReplyDeleteNight has become day, the sun rose in the west, and the seas receded. But we should not shed many tears for Craig Dubow, who still is hauling in an embarrassing sum. I have to admit it does show management is willing to share some of the pain the rank and file is feeling. But I also am somewhat concerned I can find no record of this release posted on Gannett's public site. Is it real, or a Halloween prank?
ReplyDeletewhat doesn't make sense is part of our department got it and part didn't. It came from:
ReplyDeleteFrom: Gannett Communications gcicom[at]gannett.com
What's a 'secular' challenge??? As opposed to a spiritual challenge?
ReplyDeleteGreat, perhaps now we can stop the those perks a past retired GCI bigwig still gets.
ReplyDeleteOur former publisher in Green Bay is still on the payroll for a lot of money.
ReplyDelete6:03: You are naive, they are just trying to prevent a riot in early December.
ReplyDeleteI'm sure that with all the money the will be saving with the layoffs, the bonuses will more than compensate the pay cut and salary freezes. Not to mention the sacrafices are temporary where the layoffs are permanent.
ReplyDeleteSome small newspaper companies have already been on a payroll freeze not affiliated with gannett. They had to cut expenses somewhere, it was either cut people or freeze wages.
ReplyDeleteokay people....you have been crying for this for a long time. At least give them credit for taking the hit themselves, as well.
ReplyDeleteIt's not often that they listen to the cries of the people but this time they did and they did the right thing.
I guarantee you it is awful to be in management anywhere in the U.S. where layoffs occur and especially more than once a year. It sucks for everyone. Believe it or not, I'm sure even for management it must not feel too good.
Oh my God this is hilarious:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.firstcollegenowwhat.com/?p=411
Guess the cut will be rolled into his golden parachute.
ReplyDeleteI'm sorry, but I really don't feel grateful or glad he's taking a pay cut. Wow, big deal, he'll lose $200K this year. What does he have in his savings account, what will he still take home and what's in his golden parachute? The man still makes more money than he deserves and he'll still be absolutely fine while the rest of us are begging for pennies on a street corner. What was I supposed to do when that e-mail arrived in my inbox -- stand up and cheer and thank God for Craig Dubow's selflessness?
ReplyDeleteYeah I would like to know why only some people received that email. We speculated/half-joked that the ones who got it were either on the good or bad side of the layoffs.
ReplyDeleteThere are plenty of ways the board can make up this big "sacrifice" to execs. Hand out free stock - which is worth something unless it goes to zero. More money for supplemental retirement funds. Stock options (yes, even issued at this low price, they're probably worth something, compared to the under-water options they now hold). And let's not forget there's no mention if bonuses are being taken off the table.
ReplyDeleteSo, he ends up still over 1 million. How many people does it take in cuts to make up his salary? What about taking a hit management? We have too many chiefs! First we were told 10% layoffs, now we are told each department is given a dollar amount in salaries to cut. Cut management. In classified ad sales, we get the feeling our jobs are being moved to a "Center of Excellence." We were told today, Gannett Corp., is calling into our account base. But don't worry, they are just trying to drum up lapped business and offer a large special to come back. Sorry, I thought that was why I was calling my account base. Seems like a lot of duplication to me. I'm tired of being tortured!
ReplyDeleteHey Anonymous 9:08,
ReplyDeleteWhat do you mean only some people received the email? I thought it was addressed to all gannett employees?
Who didn't get it, and how do you know?
Who are company and divisional officers? Does that mean all Gannett employees? Does this mean I'm not getting any kind of a raise on my review which is now overdue?
ReplyDeleteI want to know about Gannett's "strategic plan."
ReplyDeleteWhere is it? I asked for it. Nobody here knew of its existence. The people at my paper said they'd get back with me. I've been waiting a month.
What's next? Will consultant-for-life/former CFO Larry Miller give up part of his $600,000 annual salary he's now getting since leaving in 2004? I can see he must be providing Gracia lots of good advice.
ReplyDeleteWTF???? We're paying a guy who no longer works for the company $600K a year for life? What does this guy actually do? Count how much Al is getting for his weekly USAT column?
ReplyDelete"Anonymous Anonymous said...
ReplyDeleteWho are company and divisional officers? Does that mean all Gannett employees? Does this mean I'm not getting any kind of a raise on my review which is now overdue?
11/03/2008 9:37 PM"
Hundreds of people are getting laid off and you're worried about getting a raise. You should be happy if you still have your job next month.
WAKE UP!!!!
on what pay is dublow taking the cut? executivepaywatch.org lists him as having made about $8 mil in '07 . . . i think i could lose 17% of that and not even notice it . . . certainly not as much as i've noticed losing $67k outta my 401k.
ReplyDeletesorry, but i'm not impressed. it's too little, and far, far too late to save jobs. what he -- and probably ALL top-paid gci decision-makers -- should do is resign in disgrace and go do penance someplace:
let them try working part-time jobs while trying to get credentials for a new field -- maybe teaching (something other than journalism, a career path i expect to be highly unpopular with parents, if not with students). maybe the older ones could just take early retirement and live on an average gci retiree's pension and social security. how about being seasonal tax-preparers and graduation-test graders?
yes, the industry's been hit by a perfect storm, but some of us are covered by leaky umbrellas, while others shelter under mcmansion roofs.
Corporate has made a gesture and nothing more. The chiefs probably made it because they recognize the intensity of resentment boiling at all the company's sites. They need people to slave -- slave -- while waiting for the axe. They need people give vastly more than they receive in compensation, and they need employees to compensate for short staffing by working unpaid overtime, doing it "to get the story" because that's what we do. The whole disintegration will accelerate if people start to think about what a parasitic relationship they're in. Corporate needs "deep sacrifices" and "harder and harder" work to keep the machine turning and keep money coming in to pay for vice presidents in Reston. The reward for a significant number in the trenches will be a pink slip in few weeks, and plenty of time to think about the frozen pension, the hours and years given away while working the story and not the hour. Many of us are victims of our own values, and those values are being exploited to maintain a teetering corporate shell that doesn't do much for any of our communities.
ReplyDeleteOr so it seems at the end of a long day and after another pile of new demands. Maybe it will look different tomorrow.
Nice gesture, perhaps, but why have we not heard from Dubow this year? As the leader of the company why has he not been communicating with the staff during this difficult time? Even this communication did not come from him. Maybe not communicating with employees was added to his job description and no one told us.
ReplyDeleteLoose $200K? So what? That's the salary of at least... 6 or 7 Gannett employees who WON"T be rehired. The bottom line is this: Anyone taking a 200K cut, sure as hell ain't making $300,000 a year! If he's cutting it, that means he can well afford it... just changes his tax bracket a little, that's all folks. Stop being so naive!
ReplyDeleteThe Jet Blue CEO cut his salary ($500,000) by 50%.
ReplyDeleteThe Midwest Air Group CEO cut his salary (approx. $400,000) by 40%. Other corporate staffers had their salaries cut, not frozen.
Freddie Mac's new CEO is earning $900,000, which is a 25% reduction from the previous CEO's salary.
Conagra's board voted to cut the CEO's salary by 41%. "It's a reflection of our pay-for-performance philosophy," said a company spokeswoman.
geez you all are bitter. I am happy I still have a job and hope I will for awhile.
ReplyDeleteHave you all seen the media layoffs announced this week? There are NO JOBS in media. If you have a job, be thankful. wake up and stop the whining.
brush up the resume, folks. it's going to be a long, hard holiday season.
ReplyDeleteI am glad that Dubow did this, as it was a long time coming. That said, the cut actually amounts to approximately 2.75% of his total compensation. And it's unrealistic to look only at base salary when one's total compensation is more than four times the base salary.
ReplyDeleteIn essence, Dubow's gesture was about as grand as it would be for a press room employee or journalist to give up his/her last raise ... assuming they were lucky enough to receive a 2-3 percent raise this year.
What's more, a 2 to 3 percent cut means a lot less to someone bringing in millions than to someone struggling to make ends meet. Considering that Dubow has driven this company into the ground, he is lucky that he still has a job. Yes. All newspapers are struggling, but if he's not accountable for our massive failure who is?
A business owner who devalued his or her company by 60 or 70 percent would be feeling a real economic pinch right now, not simply taking a negligible 2.75% hit.
With thousands of workers looking at unemployment and 60 to 70 percent reductions in their income (probably more if you consider health benefits), it seems insulting for a manager to take a minor cut, especially when he tries to spin it as a much larger hit than it actually was.
Craig. You just trumpeted a 17 percent cut. Now why don't you actually take one. Give up $1.3 million a year so that 23 folks making $50,000 can keep their jobs. Then, I'll be impressed.
Note on the fact that some got the email while others didn't - check your spam folders. About half of the emails I get from corporate or even my own I.T. department end up there - though I always check the box that makes them "not spam, allow all emails from this domain"
ReplyDeleteHow often your email syncs up with the corporate server may also be a factor, or even if your inbox is full.
Don't worry, just give the COE a call and they will give you a credit for the missed delivery.
anon 3:21 - I couldn't agree more. While this was a nice gesture this guy won't be standing in any soup lines. In fact, I'll bet his lifestyle won't change one bit. He may cut back on gifts to his grandkids but nothing will change in his home or his activities. At his salary + everything else $200,000 probably means his retirement saving have been cut a little.
ReplyDeleteIn the big picture this was spin. If you want to see someone do something powerful, just look at Iacoca and his pay cut. That was leadership.
When you have to actually TELL people (via flak) or point out that you are being a leader -- um, yea, you probably aren't. With everything else CD has padded himself with, the cut is a joke.
ReplyDeleteThe real question is: How many newspaper publishers and editors will follow his "lead"? Now THAT would tell me something about who we really work for these days.
If you voluntered a 2.7% pay cut, would Gannett keep you? That's the real question.
ReplyDeleteToo little too late.
ReplyDeleteI'm not mpressed by that paltry sum. Try again Dubow. Add a zero.
I just love working my ass off for pennies while Craig D. and other uppity-ups in Gannett get golden pedicures and golden manicures then wipe their asses with thousand dollar bills.
ReplyDeleteTHANK HEAVENS! Although the money to be saved is a pittance in comparison with the down economy's effect on Gannett, this step has extremely great significance to employees and shareholders. If this step had not been taken, there would have been -- trouble.
ReplyDeleteI am very, very glad to see this happen.
Just a NOTE:
ReplyDeleteThe SUE above is not the SUE from a few days ago that posted the upcoming layoffs announced 2 weeks ago.
The "Original" Sue
What does Dubow get for serving as a director of Broadcast Music, Inc.?
ReplyDeleteInteresting, as an IT flunky, I did not receive Fearless Leader's email on his massive pay cut.
ReplyDeleteShould I read anything into that?
I think the email went out in waves. Someone in our department got it and then about an hour later I got it. So maybe the Corporate Email Server is run by gerbils. That would be my guess.
ReplyDelete7:36, I will actually be taking a 100% cut this round. I am being cut.
ReplyDeleteBut that does bring up the grander question: If they would have asked everyone to take a 1% or 2% cut, would the company's employees respond to see more of their friends and co-workers be able to keep their jobs or for them to be able to keep their own? Yes, it would suck, but at least everyone would still have a job.
And, why wouldn't Gannett at least ask that? For a business that trumpets creativity, we have none.
So basically he's going to have to live on $7.3 million instead of $7.5 million. This reminds me of the time I got a $5/week raise for doing a month of slamming hard work on a special project. I just wanted to look at my boss and say, "Why bother?"
ReplyDeleteOf course, I took the money, and in this case, I'm still glad to see him give this back, but it just makes me shake my head and smile. "Why bother?"
Also, I can't help but think of the old saw: "He was born on third base and thought he hit a triple." There are many people right now who think this cut is meaningful. But I'll still take it.
ReplyDeleteHe can either
ReplyDelete1. Do the job, or
2. Not do the job.
If he's saying he can only perform at 80%, then Gannet needs to find someone who can give 100%.
Since when is earning $1 million plus bonuses a "deep sacrifice"? We should all sacrifice so deeply.
ReplyDeleteOK, I'll take only $7.5 million this year while the company is in paroxysms and people are losing their jobs all around me ... life imitates THE ONION once again ...
ReplyDeleteWhat immediately bothered me was that Dubow actually made a conscious decision to cut his salary. Yes, I said this bothered me. Why? Because somewhere in his head, 17 percent was adequate, but 18 percent was too much.
ReplyDeleteThe only salary cut that would have been respectable to me is at least 50 percent. That shows he's thinking about his company and his employees. Most of his employees can't afford to buy a home or make ends meet with one job. He's sitting on guaranteed income of millions. $200,000 is actually more insulting to me because he said to himself that $201,000 was too much of a sacrifice for him...
The truly appropriate cut would be the percentage that stock prices have dropped under his watch. And that percentage should be applied to all compensation.
ReplyDeleteOf course, anyone who devalues a company this completely in such a short time shouldn't even have the job in the first place.
Whoever doesn't think taking a 200k pay cut for Dubow isnt going to hurt him you clearly arent looking at the amount of money he has lost in stock. He has over 700,000 shares. All you angry employees need to realize he has lost more this year then you can make in a life time. Stop your bitching and be glad you have a job.
ReplyDelete1:57 PM
ReplyDeleteAnd just who do you suppose is ultimately responsible for his huge loss?
10:44 great idea...
ReplyDeleteAlso, people keep posting and thanking Jim because Craig is reading this blog also. Many people have posted his salary, and asking him to take a pay cut. Because of this blog maybe gannett should layoff Tana or replace her with Jim.
Maybe Jim is Tara and Tara is Jim and this blog is actually the company's newfangled DIG!! If that's true, it's perhaps Gannett's only true innovation.
ReplyDeleteThe question is when are they going to lay off any of the corporate officers? If they want to feel our pain some of them should go.
ReplyDeleteHow very lulzy. I never made more than $31,000 a year while with Gannett (and that was with lots of overtime, in an expensive-ass state) and I'm sure the vast majority of employees were similarly poorly compensated.
ReplyDeleteIt's funny that Dubow's pay cut and the raise freeze is coming now, when you could go back all the way to 2002 and find company memos talking about strict limits on raises for the common folk in the company. It must be nice to insulate yourself from that for six years, then try to present yourself as a hero when you slash your salary so you're "only" making a mil.
What a bunch of cocksuckers.
Burn, baby, burn. The only thing that tempers my joy at seeing this ship sink is the fact that I still have close friends working for the company, and the fact that most of you who are still there are just as poor as I was when I worked for them. GET OUT WHILE YOU CAN! And good luck doing it!
Here's a wild guess: You manage nobody. Dubow is responsible for thousands of people and more than a billion in revenue. A CEO at that level earns that kind of money, whether their company produces news or hockey sticks. And here he is, amid the worst time in the industry's history, giving some back. That's a sincere move. Is that what the other CEOs in struggling business are doing right now? Where are those headlines. What would you have Dubow do, work for free? Would that be enough for you? And here's a bigger question for the people still on the payroll who show up at this site and try to stick it to The Man: What are you willing to give back to help save your company? If you got cut at this point, you can surmise that you probably weren't part of the bigger picture, don't have the skills to compete in the digital are or just aren't mission-critical. Face up, you're just not that important to the future success of journalism.
ReplyDelete"A CEO at that level earns that kind of money, whether their company produces news or hockey sticks. And here he is, amid the worst time in the industry's history, giving some back."
ReplyDeleteYou can't give back what you didn't take in the first place. Maybe that's why the industry has tanked.
He has over 700,000 shares. All you angry employees need to realize he has lost more this year then you can make in a life time.
ReplyDeleteIs that supposed to make us feel better?
5:31 pm - Yes he should work for free...actually he should just go. I think the company would do better with no CEO right now.
ReplyDeleteReply to Anonymous @11/04/2008 5:31 PM
ReplyDelete>>Here's a wild guess: You manage nobody. Dubow is responsible for thousands of people and more than a billion in revenue. A CEO at that level earns that kind of money …<<
Only if he's successful.
You must be joking. Or you're a senior exec.
Who exactly are these "company and division officers"? Seems a bit vague!
ReplyDeleteWith thousands of workers looking at unemployment and 60 to 70 percent reductions in their income (probably more if you consider health benefits), it seems insulting for a manager to take a minor cut, especially when he tries to spin it as a much larger hit than it actually was.
ReplyDeleteCraig. You just trumpeted a 17 percent cut. Now why don't you actually take one. Give up $1.3 million a year so that 23 folks making $50,000 can keep their jobs. Then, I'll be impressed.
YES - I concur! Geeez, I am so tired of Dubow p@#***ing down our backs and telling us it's raining! Matter of fact, while he was at it why didn't Gracia take a pay-cut, too? As a CFO isn't she just as responsible? Matter of fact: why not shed all these bloodsuckers like Larry Miller, McCorkindale, Sue Clark-Johnson and Al Neuharth? I thought they retired - why are they still on the payroll???? Haven't they sucked Gannett dry enough????? I'am sure that their combined income would just free up enough money to support Gannett. And please don't tell me another story about they are supplying Gannett on a regular basis with their wisdom (or the better word for it: advisory role)or for Neuharth the weekly USAT column.
Matter of fact, what is up with the board of directors? Usually, when somebody can't cut it in their job they're let go. But,I have to be realistic, too: After they fired him who else want to take on this mess of Gannett on????
Again, Craig Dubow, no kudos from me: All of this is too little too late!!!
I aspire to someday be able to have a salary from which I can take a $200,000 paycut...
ReplyDeleteWe really appreciate Craig's 17% base pay cut ... voluntary pay cut.
ReplyDeleteI think somehow that is not appropriate for the man who was in the driver's seat while Gannett stock was losing 75% of its value.
Let's see, 17% vs. 75%. There used to be an old Gannett saying "Profit follows performance." Apparently the reverse is not completely true.
Craig, do you sleep well at night?
Love the Digital Marketing Digest comment to this suppose to be "gracious" action of CEO Dubow:
ReplyDeleteSo the CEO is foregoing $200,000 in salary, reducing his base pay to $1 million a year. But like most public-company CEOs, Dubow's compensation isn't limited to his base pay, of course. Reuters:
Dubow's base salary, which will be cut, is $1.2 million a year. His total compensation is about $7.5 million, counting base pay, bonus, stock awards, stock options and deferred compensation interest earnings, a company spokeswoman said.
So while Dubow's salary cut -- almost 20% -- sounds noble, in reality, he'll only make 3% less. Not exactly falling on your sword.
LOL! I love the last sentence!
And this comment is THE BEST:
ReplyDeleteI first read this story earlier today and was slightly irritated by it and then I read JR Raphael’s post here on the Inquisitr about Gannett’s CEO; Craig Dubow, making a big deal about taking a pay cut in sympathy of employees facing pending layoffs. Well, isn’t that nice of him - a CEO with heart. Ya .. okay … can I puke now?
Let’s get this straight. Here we have a guy pulling down $7.5 million per year (this is his base $1.2 million base salary plus all his bonuses, stock options and other goodies) who suddenly has discovered his empathy for the working class facing financial ruin. So he says that for one year only he is going to cut his own salary to $7.3 million. That’s right folks Dubow is going to sacrifice $200,000 of his paycheck in a guesture of understanding.
WTF! Does this guy really even comprehend the economic world that the majority of workers; like the one’s facing layoffs from Gannett, live in? As far as I am concerned that this guesture is nothing short of insulting to those workers. How many people would even half of that yearly salary being paid to one person employ? However this kind of CEO greed isn’t just limited to Gannett but is persauvsive throughout the corporate world. Single individuals are earning more money that the combined GDP of the poorest countries in the world and for what?
The simple fact that they have had the luck and the connections that enabled them to be named a CEO of some corporation shouldn’t mean that any one of them is worth making multi million dollar salaries. Making the kind of salaries that are being made on the back of forever rising cost of goods and an increasing base of the working poor. At what point does being paid a fair salary for work being done turn become nothing short of personal greed at the cost of people sliding down the economic scale into oblivion.
The fact that Dubow is in charge of a business that is crying to anyone that will listen about how they are being led to the slaughter by the Internet is nothing but incredibly laughable. Newspapers are going out of business, cutting jobs left right and center and yet people like Dubow are making multi million dollar salaries - for what? Then to insult us all by declaring he has empathy for the working poor that his company employs; or lays off take your pick these days, and is going to sacrafice not even 3% off his salary for one year.
No wonder our economy is in the toilet with this kind of attitude - screw the working poor and keep paying out multi million dollar salaries to a minority of well connected smucks who couldn’t care about those people struggling to just get by.
Keep your $200G’s Mr. Dubow - we don’t need to be insulted like this.
You have to help me, $7,500,000 pay? Where? He gets base salary, i get that, and bonus. But everything else is worth nuttin. Actually, he didn't get all his bonus, and now giving back $200k from his contract. I hate to say this, but he's doing the right thing. Congrats.
ReplyDeleteCD takes a 17% cut in "base" salary and we are supposed to believe him whe he says that he feels our pain. Come on! His drop in the bucket is supposed to make us feel all inspired with awe as we are handed our pinkslips and escorted out of the building. What a nice guy! Am I supposed to feel better about Gannet and management after this? Is this "huge" sacrifice on behalf of our esteemed CEo and upper management supposed to save my job and the jobs of the other very competent people that I work with, some more competent than those who bury this company for a living and make seven figures for doing it. No, not really.
ReplyDeleteNot for nothing, but like everything this company does, it’s too little too late. This action might have made a larger impact in employee relations a year to 16 month ago. Now, knowing what his true salary figure with perks, bonuses and options, it's downright insulting to me now. Some of us are making less than 40k with no perks, bonuses and options to speak of and we're are expected to be inspired by his charity?
ReplyDeleteSome say that it should be deeper for someone who has brought Gannett (Company and Stock) to new lows. If his entire pay was based on the rise and fall of the fortunes of this company instead of being paid regardless if the company tanks or not, he would feel a bit more responsible about the job he does and the decisions that he makes. For example - Gannett’s internet web presence would have been more robust if proper attention was given to it 2-3 years ago instead of treating it as a tag-a-long to the paper. Other news companies made that commitment and are benefitting from it. But not us, “physical paper is the way to go. Internet is just a fad.” Again too little, too late.
The following links will show you a break down of CD's total compensation for 2008 from Forbes, The Washington Post & The New York Times.
ReplyDeleteAlthough all three are slightly different, they average out at $7,487,456.3
http://people.forbes.com/profile/craig-a-dubow/35769
http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/d/craig_a_dubow/index.html
http://projects.washingtonpost.com/post200/2008/executive/5013/
You've got to love the guy for making such a sacrifice. Or perhaps not.