Monday, January 26, 2009
Monday | Jan. 26 | Your News & Comments
Can't find the right spot for your comment? Post it here, in this open forum. Real Time Comments: parked here, 24/7. (Earlier editions.)
63 comments:
Jim says: "Proceed with caution; this is a free-for-all comment zone. I try to correct or clarify incorrect information. But I can't catch everything. Please keep your posts focused on Gannett and media-related subjects. Note that I occasionally review comments in advance, to reject inappropriate ones. And I ignore hostile posters, and recommend you do, too."
Note: Only a member of this blog may post a comment.
Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)
Hola!
ReplyDeleteOK 9:25 Sunday said:
ReplyDeleteDude, have you never heard of "vacations"?
They're the quaint, old-fashioned reason newspaper employees vacate the office for a week or so.
How could any newspaper survive them? How could such a treasured institution continue to publish in the face of these awful "vacations" that return to plague productivity year after year?
Oh, wait. We've been working around vacation schedules for years....
A furlough is a bad deal for the employee: no pay. But let's not pretend that a newsroom can't figure out how to deal with them.
1/25/2009 9:25 PM
I SAY:
I understand what you are saying, BUT... everyone is short-staffed as is. Vacations are already hard to get in. I don't know about your site, but at our I know SEVERAL folks who NEVER get all their vacation time in, (I always do because I get the two weeks and always make sure I use it).
If no one is to put in OT, but the newspaper is still being produced, the work has to come from somewhere.
I agree that the furlough is better than a layoff.
Everyone needs to learn to not spend so closely that a one week a year reduction will bankrupt them. BUT, does anyone really believe that this one week is all there is going to be?
Why is it that when people are let go, I see a new face in the building? I have seen this a couple of times. Yes they are hired at a lower rate but with the learning curve it still costs them money. Why is it I also see the same old slackers still around? This one chick comes in at 9am and takes off for the gym at 10:30 am then has lunch and is back around 1pm, I still can't figure out what her job is and most people don't have any idea what she does either other then talk on the phone with her friends and family and is gone at 4:30 pm
ReplyDeleteWOULD YOU PEOPLE STOP COMPLAINING........ HOW ABOUT A FULL TIME FURLOUGH....WHAT A BUNCH OF DAMN CRY BABIES.....MOST STILL HAVE A JOB....TURN A NEG. INTO A POS.
ReplyDelete"A furlough is a bad deal for the employee: no pay"
BOO HOOO
Eh, our newspaper will probably shut down before any of us get to use our vacation days anyway.
ReplyDeleteSounds like new hire is C.P. part oh N.J. group.Lunch is best part of the day.
ReplyDelete11:54 - sounds like our vp's
ReplyDeleteWell. In some places, unfortunately, editors have been begging reporters NOT to write for years now. The routine daily stories, keeping up with developments on your beat, are dead and buried. It does make it hard to argue this point that they can't do without us for a week. They can do without us -- somebody will get shot, and somebody will be there to write up the police report and get some hits. The pressure's on us, the pros, to demonstrate our worth. We can do it. We will do it. But we can't take it for granted any more.
ReplyDeleteWhen is Gannett going to start selling off some of the newspapers?
ReplyDeleteI have to say I'm shocked by all the posts re: How will the newspaper get out when someone is on a non-paid furlough?
ReplyDeleteBecause if there's one thing this laid-off career journalist learned in her first job years ago: No matter what, the paper is going to get out. There must be a lot of rookies writing on this blog who do not know this one cardinal rule. Or crybabies who just don't know how to handle pressure.
I can think of one way to fill in any gaps left by a furloughed staffer (or someone on vacation, or someone sick for that matter): Tell the slackers to turn it up a few notches.
Where I worked, some people only had one byline a week. Some copy editors edited half the articles their co-workers were banging out to make deadline. Exempt from this were the designers, who were working like crazy. And yes, filling a void of a furloughed designer may require someone in a glass office who knows how to paginate to step it up.
It's up to MANAGERS to get the paper out. That's why they are managers: they manage staff productivity vis a vis the deadline. That's why they get paid more, too. More pressure.
Welcome to the world of newspapers! Pressure is just part of the fun, at least I thought so.
11:54 am - Sounds like the person you describe is ..........(wait for it)..... is. .......
ReplyDeleteThe publisher.
11:54. Many of us who were laid off know that it had nothing to do with profit margins. It had everything to do with bringing in younger (cheaper) help. Whiz kids with tech skills are very trendy right now. Nothing against them, but they don't possess enough life experience to understand what work is all about. There needs to be a blending of both young and mature in any successful company. What the company failed to understand is that the old guard had a wealth of knowledge and work ethics that this new and cheaper crop of employees simply doesn't have...at least not yet. So GCI saved a few dollars by getting rid of us but lost the very fabric of what built this company. They lost mentors to the next generation of Gannettoids. In the end, these whiz kids, with their transient ways and carefree attitudes, will cost this company money. They will leave. It would have been far better for GCI to keep some of us around to mentor these people and to provide a more natural transition. Many of us also had an aptitude for learning new technologies, so GCI could have had the best of both worlds if they would have given us a chance. Heck, I would have even accepted a pay cut in order to keep my job. But the powers that be were bent on bringing in new faces with fewer wrinkles. Penny wise, pound foolish in my opinion. Maybe GCI will come to their senses and rehire some of us. I mean they can't possibly expect these young'uns with iPhones and Blackberries and gym memberships to provide the company with all it needs to be successful. Isn't there enough evidence already that proves too many good people were lost and that the remaining folks and new faces will not be able to carry the load? There is more to a successful workplace than HTML experts with trendy haircuts. Life experience, professional depth, old school ethics...they should all still mean something.
ReplyDeleteFrom Sunday: You ARE the company. So why don't you take some responsibility for coming up with some "big" ideas?
ReplyDelete--
I was laid off in December and can't help but feel part of the reason is because I did often email ideas to the publisher and editors. I also publicly told people they did a good job when they did (which they seldom heard from anyone else) and would speak up if I had a strong opinion about coverage.
At one of my former, NON-Gannett papers, we often had sessions where reporters and mid-level editors could share concerns, ideas with top editors. The editors actually listened instead of giving lip service or saying "my door is always open." (Ha! Might be, but if you're never in there, who are folks supposed to talk to?)
Perhaps those who are left in newsrooms should take the initiative to pick a meeting time and invite the editors to attend. Organize it beforehand to have some concrete and proactive suggestions to start with. Keep it as positive as possible. Invite the publisher, too.
Don't have time to meet, you say? Everyone has 30-45 minutes, especially if it's a priority. If you're reading the blog you have any extra 30-45 minutes.
Try it out. Heck, if it doesn't work, it will be like most Gannett initiatives. But nothing ventured nothing gained. Maybe if there is real effort to go bottom up instead of top down, something positive might happen.
Heard GNS layoffs will be announced this afternoon? Any truth to that or indication how big they'll be?
ReplyDeleteFrom our beloved New Jersey group ...
ReplyDeletePCF took over home delivery of the Courier News last week. No re-delivery for missed papers, not even on Sunday. Just extend the subscription by 1 week for each day missed.
A coworker found that out when her elderly mother (a longtime subscriber) didn't get her Sunday paper.
NJ GROUP (update): as February 23rd P.C.F. will take over home delivery of THE HOME NEWS.
ReplyDeleteASBURY PARK PRESS is the next dot to be connected on the map.
The youth movement has been underway for a long time now at the Cincinnati Enquirer. Much of it is justified because we have so many old dogs that are going through the motions and can't learn new tricks. But I've noticed that some of the young hires with more potential tend to move on once they realize they're working for an abusive company that puts profit ahead of people. It take them a couple of years for them to realize that the people they report to talk a great game about Web relevance and building traffic, but don't have the genius to develop anything really hot other than to jump on the social-networking bandwagon. It takes them several years to realize that the 50 or 60 hours a week in unpaid overtime isn't going to result in career advancement. They end up beating their heads against the wall after dealing with fools who don't really know technology, the Web or anything other than what corporate tells them to do.
ReplyDeleteJust read something about France giving one year subscriptions to everyone on their 18th birthday. Seems to me like FF and the Gannett Foundation could do something similar to promote literacy, and boost the news business at the same time.
ReplyDelete1/26/2009 9:45 AM wrote: When is Gannett going to start selling off some of the newspapers?
ReplyDeleteThey'll sell them when the property they're sitting on becomes valuable again ... which means you're probably safe until after the real estate crash reverses.
Jim, when you put the word "Gannett" in Google, "gannett blog" is the second most-searched term that comes up. There is also a www.gannettlayoffs.com Web site set up by some lawyers looking for age discrimination cases.
ReplyDeleteJim - anyone out there - still no word on when finance people are getting the axe? Thought it was all supposed to be done by March.
ReplyDeleteAre lay offs really around the corner or is this just paranoid people venting?
ReplyDeleteI heard P.C.F. is hiring. I'm getting my app. in today.
ReplyDeleteCan newsrooms work around vacations? Of course. But the furloughs create a different situation. What the case is here is that everyone now has an extra week of time off, and they have about two months to take it. This is an order of magnitude different than 2-4 weeks planned in advance and spread out over a year. Operations are already cut to the bone and there are some employees already taking regular paid time off.
ReplyDeleteSeriously, folks, if you're hourly, document how much work you were given, and how much you were able to get done, and whether or not they approved overtime for you to get the work done.
There's a nice story in Editor and Publisher about a laid off Gannett editor who is running his own weekly newspaper.
ReplyDeleteLaid-Off 'Burlington Free Press' Editor Launches Own Weekly
By John Curran
Published: January 26, 2009 10:34 AM ET ENOSBURG FALLS, Vt. Ed Shamy's got a column to write.
His deadline can wait, though. It'll have to. First, there's the newsroom trash cans, which are overflowing again. And the bathroom is getting skanky, so he'll scrub that down.
In between the cleaning tasks, the phone calls and pushing a newspaper-laden wheelbarrow to the outdoor recycling bin -- "wheelbarrows don't go so good in snow, I've found," he says -- he'll write his column. This week, it's about an entrepreneur's new shuttle service for people wanting to visit loved ones in Vermont prisons.
More:
http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003934329
Check this out:
ReplyDeletehttp://poynter.org/forum/view_post.asp?id=13777
At least I haven't gotten any memos yet about being rated on my ATTITUDE. I can't believe they are going to rate people on their attitude. So wrong. Aren't journalists SUPPOSED to be cranky? After all, we deal with idiot politicians, corrupt businesspeople, criminals and all manner of bad news. We don't work in a day care center!
Question and I know somebody has the answer to this. What happens if the furloughs cause some workers not to be able to take their paid vacation time? Not sure whether one week of furlough could cause this but if there were two weeks, it might, especially with some employees who have three weeks of vacation or more. Thoughts?
ReplyDelete11:54pm: There is plenty of GCI corporate staff still around, like the chick you described, with those wonderful work and gym hours.
ReplyDelete11:23 -- I'm part of that youth movement... but on the broadcast side, and I completely agree about the people who don't "get" technology. But that comes all the way down from corporate.
ReplyDeleteAs a TV station, how can you expect to have a decent website without a decent media player/streaming media player? Mogulus is terrible, and don't even get me started on the disaster that is Maven.
The websites are not organized well. The all hands on deck/everyone responsible for the web way of thinking has actually led to it being the last thing updated... only after the reporters are done with their pkgs and respective vo/sots.
It would make more sense to hire one or two web producers who do nothing but update the web, make sure it's fresh, and know the ins and outs of organizing the front page and beyond. But I understand, it costs money to hire bodies. (Nonetheless you would think they would invest in "the future")
As a user I want a simple to use website. (And our search function doesn't even work!) The GCI layouts are not cutting it.
On a side note, I read some complaints about anchors being exempt from the furloughs in previous enteries. It's not just anchors, it's employees with a personal service contract, including producers such as myself and reporters as well. We were asked by management if we were willing to take the week off, because they cannnot LEGALLY force us to, and break our agreements. I took the furlough along with most other contracted people at my station. If my $500 for the week is going to "save" Gannett, then great. (Somehow I'm skeptical.)
More from The Inquisitor
ReplyDeletehttp://tinyurl.com/6d2fzt
Interesting article from the Wall Street Journal about how too many rules quashes the belief in the power of individuals to affect change.
ReplyDeleteI think many of the same arguments may apply to what is wrong with this company: the micro-managing, local decisions being overruled by regional managers, a constant 'can't do' attitude the pervades management while they try to sell the 'can do' corporate rhetoric of the day.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123293018734014067.html?mod=rss_Today%27s_Most_Popular
11:23
ReplyDeleteHey, I thought all the Cincinnati Enquirer's problems were solved when a certain editor with a lust for flat-screen TVs moved to New Jersey.
Not?
all of america is having lay offs. yet somehow we think we are alone. wake up and be glad you have a job.
ReplyDelete4:19. The thing that distinguishes many of Gannett's layoffs is that Gannett properties, for the most part, are profitable. That is the thing that annoys the hell out of most people who can look a bit beneath the surface and not clump every company into the same financial situation.
ReplyDeleteMy gosh people be greatful you still have a job. This economy is bound to get worse before it gets better. Having to take forced time off without pay is a bad deal but it's better than losing your job right? If not, then quit.
ReplyDeleteIf GNS is any measure of the size of the new round of layoffs, it will be a third of the payroll. I don't know any community paper that will survive a round of this magnitude. Editors already in closed-door meetings at my place and I am informed they were told to put nothing on e-mail to keep it out of this blog's columns.
ReplyDelete10:15
ReplyDeleteYour post makes it sound as if you are old and bitter. I am young and excited and want to work hard. You mention that gannett should have kept some of the old school to mentor us, but I sure wouldn't want my mentor to be you.
Hey 5:55/:53 and whatever else you might be....it's not bitterness...it's the lack of respect to those who have given their lives to a company that has squeezed every ounce of for less and less reward. Talk to us in 20 yrs when, if these bastards are still viable, snatch it all away from you
ReplyDeleteHow much Does Gannett pay out a year in company cars for publishers with all insurance and that stuff.
ReplyDelete10:15
ReplyDeleteAre you the publisher in Asheville?
Anyway, old school employees have been doing their job for so long that it is as efficient as it is going to get. They figure why change something I have perfected over the decades.
The problem with that is the competitors will leap frog you with innovation and beat you at your own game.
Gannett let this happen and now they are trying in vain to play catch up. Day late and dollar short if you ask me. Gannett will always be second pick, just like Pepsi is to Coke Cola.
With over 70+ years of family in the business,I have forgotten more about the newspaper bussiness then any of the "YOUNGSTERS" will even be luckey enough to know!!!So mind your manners JR
ReplyDeleteCincinnati Enquirer's new revenue source...fortune telling.
ReplyDeleteThe recorded message on the Enquirer customer service line right now informs callers their newspaper delivery tomorrow (Tuesday) morning will be delayed one to two hours due to weather conditions.
It is 8:00 p.m. Monday. 1-3 inches of snow PREDICTED for Tuesday morning. Currently, not a flake in sight.
6:09
ReplyDeleteDon't blame the industry's lack of respect on the "youngsters." We walked into this profession full of hope, energy and excitement. In fact, us "youngsters" could argue that because industry people didn't change at the appropriate time and build a new business model (like when the Internet began to catch on and embrace multimedia instead of avoid it) then NONE of us YOUNG or OLD would be in these predicaments!
Did it ever occur to any of you old school people that us "jr.s" have worked hard as well in j school and in internships for for or five years in college (and taken out massive loans) only to find a dilapidated market? Or that we somehow landed a job and wanted to use our multimedia skills only to be shunned or patronized by the threatned and older, wiser people?
We are hurt just as much as you folks. Just in a different way.
Have to laugh at the punkster who called a newspaper curmudgeon a "hater."
ReplyDeleteTypical vocabulary for 20-somethings who apparently think experience and wisdom and a keen eye for the difference between right and wrong equal "hate."
I guess "haters" are the people who use a dictionary instead of the Web, who go look at a map on the wall instead of MapQuest, who drink their coffee from a beat-up old coffeepot at work and not Starbucks.
Being older isn't an excuse for many things, but in our business, it usually means having invaluable experience, intestinal fortitude, tolerance, patience, and most important of all, LOYALTY.
Unfortunately, what I've learned about Gannett is that none of the above qualities seem to matter much any more. That Tom of "Broadcast News" will always do better than nerdy Aaron. Sad.
Jim... the teasers are great... but where's the new stuff? I keep checking back every hour or so which drives up your hit counts, but keeps me wondering.
ReplyDeleteI am sure that there are some other nervous people in McLean checking back often as well.
Is this one going to be tasty or what? Dickey sure got some universal press... what's next?
I believe I respected those "old school" editors when I was breaking into the business. Heck, in some ways I wanted to be just like them. They knew their stuff and I ate up every bit of knowledge they were willing to pass along. And it wasn't always just about newspapering. There were life lessons to learn, too. Judging from some of the comments from some of the younger people here, the times have indeed changed. You know, I might be old, but in my day you wouldn't have even been hired by a newspaper of any significant size until you learned a few things about the business at some weekly or small community daily. Now, I guess owning the latest gadget and talking about how excited you are will suffice and you'll not only get hired, but probably promoted every six months. You'll bash and displace us old timers because you come cheap and can use your thumbs. And meanwhile, the company enables you. Guess the company is more easily impressed these days by tech tricks and trendy lingo. Good luck to you and the company. You will grow old. And by allowing the company to crap on us now, you are making the bed for your own future. Remember this 25 years from now when they throw you and your gadgets out onto the streets. Hopefully, for your sake, it will happen in a better economy. Hopefully your parents aren't suffering the same fate as many of us older Gannett lay off victims. 5:53 and the rest of you young'uns, go ahead, disrespect us, reject our efforts to lend our knowledge, applaud our layoffs. See what that gets you.
ReplyDeleteThis old vs. young discussion, well, is getting old. I get along fine with the young people I work with. they have skills I don't have and I have skills - experience, news judgement, knowlegde of the community - that they appreciate. They push me forward, I hold them back, and we put out a better product - God, how i hate that word.
ReplyDeleteFunny stuff 8:09...
ReplyDeleteTypical Cincinnati - making excuses for the carriers instead of managing expectations and contingencies. That explains why Cincinnati has the worst service CPM in the midwest. They just wish customer service was still local so they could remove all the complaints from the corporate reporting.
I am now of the opinion that Q2 2009 will be the bottom of this recession. Things are going to be better by Dec. 31.
ReplyDeleteI'm sure there won't be much change in staffing levels at GCI, but the despair we're all feeling right now will abate ...
We see how well the “DIG” created new ideas – it's dead. I have no problem with younger people with fresh ideas that are motoviated to work, but I do have a problem when they goof off all day and don't put in the time, the energy and the work ethic that I do. To be perfectly honest, it pisses me off. Some think they are above the normal daily tasks that the older than 30 do everyday. Hate to tell ya guys but when you aren't the young cool group anymore they will unload you just like they have us. For some reason they think they are “untouchable” but they aren't. We will all get a slice of the Gannett pie and some will be sweeter than others.
ReplyDeleteMy pension check arrived in the mail today!
ReplyDeleteI see all this conversation about news staff (reporters, editors, etc). So far at our paper, only 3 news staff have been let go. None in Retail Advertising, and a couple in Classified. Of course we know that's where the $ come from. What not one person here has mentioned is all the "cost savings through consolidation" that has gone on (accounting departments, customer service, ad production/design, etc). Anybody realize what really suffers....besides the laid off staff? The consumer. Customer service stinks whether it be about delivery, billing issues, whatever. They can no longer talk to a local, in fact in a couple of weeks it won't matter whether it's an accounting issue or service issue, they'll be talking to someone somewhere in the midwest or south. Gannett has developed the attitude that what works in Cincinnati or New Jersey will work everywhere....and that's simply not the case. Although Gannett owns the papers....the consumers in these locals still consider them as thier "local" paper...that is being taken away, so fewer consumers, so less to be spent on advertising because fewer consumers to take it in (in addition to the sorry state of the economy).
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteInteresting article on MSNBC. Gannett is a main example in it. Here are some outtakes. And the last line is something to think about.
ReplyDeleteRead on:
"Furloughs have been around for years. In the past, they were mainly used in manufacturing during temporary plant closures. Now, organizations in various sectors appear to be rediscovering furloughs — and are using them in unprecedented numbers.
"But firms that use furloughs on a regular basis to prop up the bottom line are not only risking low morale among the rank and file: They also walk a tight rope when it comes to wage and hour laws. While hourly workers can be furloughed as often as managers at private employers want, salaried employees that are not entitled to overtime cannot be furloughed repeatedly, says Loren Smith, a spokesman for the U.S. Department of Labor.
"Frequent deductions in pay create a situation where you are treating salaried workers like hourly workers, he says. “Employees can lose their exempt status and might be entitled to overtime in the future.”
********************
"For many workers who can survive a few days without pay, or even a week, a furlough can be a welcome alternative to being laid off — or having your company go belly up, says Maltby.
"But, he adds, “if you know your employer is profitable and they’re playing the furlough game, maybe you need a union.”
More layoffs coming February at the APP!
ReplyDelete1/26/2009 9:45 AM wrote: When is Gannett going to start selling off some of the newspapers?
ReplyDeleteSell them? Who in his right mind would buy a newspaper right now? Who? When newspapers and magazines are folding left and right? You guys need to WAKE UP. Newspapers are a dying breed. In 10 years there won't be any more printed newspapers - not when advertisers can open their own websites and advertise their own goods and services (with coupons no less) on their own homepages. Think people. How many of you actually consume NEWS from a newspaper? When you know damn well, the "news" isn't even in a paper, but on the Internet and updated every two minutes? And now with the Internet in the palm of your hand, how many people even expect to get up to the minute news in a paper that's been printed five or six hours BEFORE it hits your doorstep? Let's not forget the dead miners fiasco that USA TODAY had a while back! The only people who read papers are well over 50--and then only out of habit. People 18-35 don't read newspapers and advertisers know this. And it's also why many publications are converting to online media sites. U.S. News and World Report. The Christian Science Monitor - both are published only online now, and many, many more will follow. Even the Detroit papers are publishing three days a week and eliminating home delivery the other days. Follow trends people. Gannett is STILL operating under the assumption that they can deliver the news the same way they did in the past (and enjoy those high profit margins) - and this is why Content One is doomed. Better figure out how to deliver news via Twitter, Facebook (with 180 million plus users), and on a cell phone with video and links - this is the way people will consume news in the future. Not by picking up a dirty, ink-stained out of date newspaper.
I found this link about furloughs on MSN.com
ReplyDeleteLots of good info on here, especially regarding salary employees.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28695591/
9:53
ReplyDeleteCongratulations!!!!
A breathe of fresh air from the internal and eternal sniping!
Hollis in NJ is pretty much a nonentity. He doesn't come to or out of his office much, except to supervise installation of another new flat-screen TV somewhere.
ReplyDeleteI have had in a couple of meetings he attended, in body, but he had nothing to contribute.
But the much anticipated Tom Donovan, the publisher who arrived from Westchester, I think, some months before Hollis also has proved to be a huge disappointment. Neither man has the first clue about journalism, and both seem to have little vision for running a newspaper business.
Sad, so sad, for a paper that once has such tremendous community support. Now, we're despised everywhere we go and subscribers are dropping en mass.
9:15, you can call it a newspaper. I'm with you all the way.
ReplyDelete1/27/2009 12:40 AM
ReplyDeleteI could not agree with you more about your opinion on Tom Donovan. He is all spin and jock-bonding. He lies through his teeth and acts like he knows everything about the newspapers industry. The Tom Donovan dog-and-pony-show is falling flat big time!
I cannot comment on the newsroom or journalism, but I can tell you that the PRODUCTION STAFF is being treated as poorly as dog shit on the bottom of Tom's shoes. With our reduced staff, new ad tracking system (going "live" as we speak) $$$$$, conversion over to InDesign CS3 for ad building, and now furloughed employees we are struggling. Every day is a crazy day with work flow and communication so scattered it makes a Chinese firedrill look organized. Jack Roth, vice president of production, does nothing but walk around looking shining clean. Jim Kroeze (if ever seen) walks through the departments with his hands in his pockets. I'm sure the people from DPS think we area bunch of clowns.
The reality is that we are a small group of people who are "lucky" enough to still have our jobs, but for how long? Going the extra mile to keep the ship afloat is a moot point now. It is difficult to be gung-ho when you have seen some of your EXCELLENT co-workers pushed overboard. I'm just biding my time until I can leave. The economy will turn around. By then I will be proficient in InDD3 and Ad Tracker. A few more things to add to my resume.
9:07, my sentiments as well and expressed nicely.
ReplyDeleteTell DPS that Wisconsin says 'Hi!'.
ReplyDelete